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Old 06.07.2012, 07:22   (permalink) #1
User0001
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Questions Questions Questions #2

1- Do throwing stars count as melee weapons? I've seen quite some shurikens with a -enemy chance to reflect melee% stat.
2- Are there any item attributes which will only show up at high levels? I've been unable to find any items with a -enemy chance to reflect ranged% or CA% stat.
3- Is there a way to make the blood color as bright as it used to be in Sacred1? I've been killed twice because I didn't see I was losing the battle - the red bar (arc actually) is too dark to notice with my limited color vision. There doesn't seem to be an in-game setting, but is there a setting in options.txt or the registry? (I think it's not a modding q, as it doesn't alter any gameplay mechanics)

ps: I found a level 28 relic with +3 Bargaining, which is listed as "console only" on Sacredwiki. My version: PC, 2.43.0, build 1671

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Old 06.07.2012, 15:10   (permalink) #2
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1- Throwing stars count as projectile (ranged) weapons falling under the dexterity weapons category:

Quote:
Dexerity increases damage dealt by Dexterity Based Weapons such as Short Swords, Daggers, Blunt Polearms and Ranged Weapons.
2- The modifier for reducing Opponent's chance to reflect ranged damage, albeit rare, is available with:

3- Not familiar with a solution to adjust single colors. Dulled coloration is often addressed via anisotropic filtering and gamma correction settings either in-game or with the control panel for the installed video card.

Here is a discussion regarding life-bar color concerns for other reference.

Last edited by Valdore : 06.07.2012 at 15:21. Reason: added thread discussion
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Old 06.07.2012, 15:14   (permalink) #3
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*woot* Valdore, I hope you don't work extra hours to answer my newbish questions...

1- Throwing stars count as projectile (ranged) weapons I thought so but their tendency to come with -reflect melee% gave me some doubt. What the ### is that stat doing when you're equipped with a ranged weapon? Is it another useless stat, like the brass knuckles of S1 which could give bonuses to ranged?

2- So not a snowball's chance to get the ranged reflection tunneled via a randomly-generated item, only via one unique? So an archer will need a spell or similar means to defeat enemies with reflect ranged%?
EDIT: Dang, and it's I&B too...

3- I hoped there would be a single color entry somewhere, like the hair color... I can rule out aniso so far; the texture isn't too washed out in the distance, it's just the too dark tone of the blood arc which gets me pwned when/if it's gone.

Another new question:
4- I saw different shields, ranging from 2x2 round shields / heater shields, over 2x3 kite shields, to 2x4 tower shields. From what I've seen, the armor stat of the smaller shields are inferior. Is there any disadvantage of tower shields that I'm not aware of, besides the price and the look?

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Old 06.07.2012, 17:55   (permalink) #4
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Originally Posted by User0001 View Post
their tendency to come with -reflect melee% gave me some doubt. What the ### is that stat doing when you're equipped with a ranged weapon?
Would suspect the throwing star -reflect melee% was intended or originally intended to benefit melee exclusive CAs e.g. Battle Extension to help dealing with swarming and closed escape routes etc:

Quote:
Arms an artificial, close combat battle arm which fights like an additional weapon. Initiates a series of attacks with both the equipped weapon and the battle arm. This close combat arm cannot shoot
Throwing stars spawning with +X% life leech, however, could come in handy.

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So an archer will need a spell or similar means to defeat enemies with reflect ranged%?
Should be useful to improve mitigation or dodge rates to deal with reflected projectiles unless incoming projectiles hit as life leech. Certain Dryad CAs may otherwise help prevent reflected projectiles:

Dryads can reduce opponent chance to reflect projectiles via Sinister Predator modified for Unflinching:
Quote:
The Unflinching gold mod adds the "Opponent's chance to reflect ranged attacks -x%" modifier
Alternatively, Black Curse modified for Dispel should dispel reflected projectiles from opponent buffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by User0001 View Post
Is there any disadvantage of tower shields that I'm not aware of, besides the price and the look?
Some shields cause a higher encumbrance penalty and some feature unlockable bonuses from Shield Lore modifiers though not familiar with shield disadvantages in line with those you mentioned.

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*woot* Valdore, I hope you don't work extra hours to answer my newbish questions...
No problem there although interesting sources will sometimes pop up calling for adding stuff along the way.

Last edited by Valdore : 07.07.2012 at 08:31. Reason: added Battle extension quote for elaboration
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Old 07.07.2012, 01:07   (permalink) #5
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#1 - Sacred 2 has a habit of putting together modifiers that are just silly. I have seen items restricted to one class, with bonuses for other classes on them.
#3 - I used this mod here (just the health bar portion) with the I&B expansion. I am not sure if it will run on the base S2.
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Old 07.07.2012, 14:46   (permalink) #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by User0001 View Post
1- Throwing stars count as projectile (ranged) weapons I thought so but their tendency to come with -reflect melee% gave me some doubt. What the ### is that stat doing when you're equipped with a ranged weapon? Is it another useless stat, like the brass knuckles of S1 which could give bonuses to ranged?
Yup, jsut another example of the item-generation weirdness of Sacred.

Quote:
2- So not a snowball's chance to get the ranged reflection tunneled via a randomly-generated item, only via one unique? So an archer will need a spell or similar means to defeat enemies with reflect ranged%?
You can get that mod, but it's rare & therefore difficult to get hold of.

Quote:
3- I hoped there would be a single color entry somewhere, like the hair color... I can rule out aniso so far; the texture isn't too washed out in the distance, it's just the too dark tone of the blood arc which gets me pwned when/if it's gone.
No, that requires modding/altering the image that the game uses for the health bar. The CM mod has done it & you could probably strip that particular bit out. IIRC, there was a similar mod (as far as the health bar is concerned) for non-I&B.

Quote:
Another new question:
4- I saw different shields, ranging from 2x2 round shields / heater shields, over 2x3 kite shields, to 2x4 tower shields. From what I've seen, the armor stat of the smaller shields are inferior. Is there any disadvantage of tower shields that I'm not aware of, besides the price and the look?
Not really, no. Most non-unique shields have some mods that are unlocked/based on Shield Lore. IIRC, Sacred doesn't have a concept of heavy or light shields per se, but shields with more armour should have a higher "encumbrance".
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Old 13.07.2012, 07:48   (permalink) #7
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Thanks again, Valdore & llama8. T.G.I.F.
5- Some items are great (thinking of damage conversion gloves, and some armguards don't suck either with their tendency to receive double-digit damage% in early Silver), but some gear slots are hard to fill. Shoulder pieces with good mods are, at least in my experience, hard to find, and all shrunken heads are plain sucky. All of them are white, and the regen% penalty is around 5.8%. The best mod I've found so far is +N cannibal voodoo (fore or locus)
Am I unlucky or don't heads and shoulders (LOL) get any better???
6- If "-reflect ranged% on target" is a mod you can get via random items, where does it spawn? I've seen "reflect ranged%" on shields so far, and that's rare, too. Is it one of the mods which needs a skill to unlock, and what is the skill to unlock it? I'd guess shield lore on shields or armor lore on other armor pieces, but some reqs are funny, so it could be ranged weapons lore, too.
7- This one got me pwned really good. I was level 13 vs. a level 20 T mutant and it 1-hit killed me. I admit I had uck-fall defensive skills, but I would have expected to last at least for 5 or 6 hits against the enemy.
On a related topic I noticed my BFG phim deal about twice the damage in Bronze vs. Silver, that is, it hit for ~600 points, not for ~300. It applied to enemies with less than 300hp, so it was useless. But on another thought, it happened when the enemy was too low a level to attack me, it just wandered about. To make a long story short: Is there a damage bonus for high-level attacker vs. low-level target which killed me? And if there is, when does it kick in?

"And in the other news: Hundreds of dead monkeys found in Shakespeare's basement..."

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Old 13.07.2012, 14:58   (permalink) #8
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5 - Shrunken head guide with details on obtaining higher rarity heads and gathering heads via CAs etc:
Quote:
Yellow only being found from unique bosses (or young dragons). In this way, a shrunken head of the same enemy type can come in three colors. Each color summons it's own unique hireling with the yellow head hirelings of that particular monster type being the strongest.
For shoulder pieces, settled dragons (the sizeable ones as opposed to roaming dragons) should have a better chance of carrying something useful. Settled dragon locations on the map.

6- List of items that spawn with Chance to reflect: Projectiles (ranged weapon attacks). The Ranged Weapons skill unlocks the Opponent's chance to reflect ranged damage modifier on ranged weapons. Not familiar with Ranged Weapons or Shield Lore skills unlocking the "chance to reflect projectiles" modifier.

7- Incoming dmg increase with higher level gap though the effect is usually more severe on lower levels where evasion & resistances are weaker as in creep dmg type vs char resistance/armor type. The threshold for severe incoming dmg vs creep level was reported variable albeit largely affected by relics equipped.

Last edited by Valdore : 13.07.2012 at 16:18. Reason: grammar
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Old 14.07.2012, 11:29   (permalink) #9
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I got one question:

Why don't you just enjoy playing the game, instead of using a scientific approach to create the Über-char?
Playing this game and using your feelings about an item / skill makes the game a lot more fun compared to picking the best items, skills, modifiers etc. You should give it a try.


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Old 15.07.2012, 09:43   (permalink) #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorinOakshield View Post
I got one question:

Why don't you just enjoy playing the game, instead of using a scientific approach to create the Über-char?
That's what some people enjoy Thorin.
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Old 16.07.2012, 10:17   (permalink) #11
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Quote:
I got one question:
OFF-TOPIC!!!1!11 you have to post multiple questions in this thread XD XD XD

Quote:
Why don't you just enjoy playing the game, instead of using a scientific approach to create the Über-char?
Because S2 is so full of moments you can't really enjoy. It's easy to build an unter-char if you don't take the 'scientific' approach. For example reflection. The reflection mods aren't too common, but if one occurs it can kill you. I don't enjoy getting killed. I do enjoy a game which gives me a good punch each time I get lazy, but some ways of getting killed are just nuts. If I get killed in plat with my level 35 BFG phim (against a mob of level 70-something), then well, my fault. But I'd like to know where it's safe and where it's not... and the game doesn't give me that. The game gives me like, "Level 72 Wolf, damage rating 80 physical" on the 'c' screen. When I get into a fight, it's not 80 damage but rather 600. 5 times that and I'm dead, thanks to the enemies who use CAs like Frenzied Rampage. I could play the game in a less scientific way if S2 were less cheatific (is that a word???) about the damage figures.
Don't get me wrong; it's not the enemies using CAs which I hate (I'd put that change into my personal "top 10 changes between S1 and S2"), it's the way the game keeps lying about the damage.
Taking chances can be fun, but much less so if the chances don't even exist...

Which brings me straight back to question #7, "Where is the safe zone?", so to speak.
The old damage formula was something like
<scientific content - TheSims-players back off>
"actual damage = DMG * DMG / (DMG + RES)", with DMG being the attacker's damage and RES being the target's resistance.
That is, the actual damage was always LOWER than the attacker's damage figures (or equal, if you had zero resistance). In S2, that doesn't hold any longer.
</scientific content>
And I'd really like to know where the safe zone ends, as I usually get into fights with higher-level enemies, even in Silver...

Otherwise, the game is great (if you can enjoy a game with the looks of a 2003 game but 6 times the requirements (which I can, thanks to my 2010-ish PC and my immunity to Microsoft's post-XP bullfecalmatter), and apart from one session which got the memory leak issue, but that was after 3 hours)
And I'm not complaining all the time, really. I have tried two dozen builds, and some have fallen flat, others are fine (SW), but some (mainly dryad and phim) are on the line of "It could work but I need some optimizing". So...
Quote:
Playing this game and using your feelings about an item / skill makes the game a lot more fun compared to picking the best items, skills, modifiers etc. You should give it a try.
I do. I just don't do it all the time. I'd be playing Sims rather than Sacred then, and ask questions like, "hey, anyone tell me how blondes manage to dye the inch near the roots?"...

BTW, a scientific approach would be something like...
1 - Get BFG rune, read it and summon the BFG
2 - walk until you see enemies in the distance
3 - ctrl-click the ground
4 - keep ctrl and LMB pressed while 'locking' cursor onto enemies, from a range where their AI won't work
5 - keep firing until enemies die
6 - repeat steps 2 to 6 until you're level 200. Good Game. :P

<context rip alert>
Quote:
some people enjoy Thorin.
I wish I could un-read that...
</context rip alert>

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Old 18.07.2012, 14:03   (permalink) #12
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Because S2 is so full of moments you can't really enjoy. It's easy to build an unter-char if you don't take the 'scientific' approach. For example reflection. The reflection mods aren't too common, but if one occurs it can kill you. I don't enjoy getting killed. I do enjoy a game which gives me a good punch each time I get lazy, but some ways of getting killed are just nuts. If I get killed in plat with my level 35 BFG phim (against a mob of level 70-something), then well, my fault. But I'd like to know where it's safe and where it's not... and the game doesn't give me that.
It does, it puts a coloured ring around enemies that is based on their level relative to yours, red/purple rings indicate an enemy level that is (much) higher than yours & you should (probably, depending on your build, player skill, etc) stay away from them. If you choose to ignore that, that's your perogative, but it is there & it's giving you a rough view of whether it's "safe" or not.
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Old 24.07.2012, 14:00   (permalink) #13
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Originally Posted by Llama8 View Post
Quote:
I'd like to know where it's safe and where it's not... and the game doesn't give me that.
It does, it puts a coloured ring around enemies that is based on their level relative to yours, red/purple rings indicate an enemy level that is (much) higher than yours & you should (probably, depending on your build, player skill, etc) stay away from them.
The truth is that I always end up fighting "red" enemies, but some are 1 level ahead (which is safe) and others are 19 vs. 12, e.g. in the T energy area between Thylisium and the desert.
Me vs. enemy:
8/3* (in bronze): PWN! Foes take 1337 damage without crit
8/9 (silver): easy
12/19: pwned badly
17/20: not easy but still safe
28/41*: (gold) quite dangerous but still doable
32/42: challenging, quite enjoyable (still 2 to 3 times the damage values listed, even though I have some resists)
32/72*: (plat) pwned again, 1-hit even with multiple defensive skills (armor, CR, const) - damage indicated on c-screen would gain have been high but survivable.
The enemies marked with '*' aren't meant for real gameplay, but I tried to get samples for the damage formula. Until now, I can't make ends meet. The game hides the true damage (the one you suffer when hit) quite well.
Of course, I can level up a bit where the difference is lower, but how much am i supposed to level up?
Anyone finally help me at the formula??? You know, 'level' and 'damage' are not exactly helpful in searches.


Quote:
If you choose to ignore that, that's your perogative, but it is there & it's giving you a rough view of whether it's "safe" or not.
Is that a word???

On a more serious note, no it's not giving me a "rough view" whether it's safe. All enemies have the "red ring of death", even if they are only one level ahead and therefore no real threat. And even if I kill one of them, the 'c' screen keeps lying about the true damage they inflict. '300' can mean instant death to a 1500-hp char, which is utterly whack.
And yes I can read the opponent level when I touch them with my cursor, but without the "insta-kill formula" I STILL don't know what is safe. Where does the insta-kill zone begin?
My level + 3? Or +5?
1.1 * (my level + 2)?
1.2 * my level, rounded up?
What do you suggest - that I keep playing in Bronze until I can find yellow enemies in silver?

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Old 24.07.2012, 18:45   (permalink) #14
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The game hides the true damage (the one you suffer when hit) quite well...I can level up a bit where the difference is lower, but how much am i supposed to level up? Anyone finally help me at the formula???
With lots of char defensive vs opponont offensive variables that continuously alter survivabiliy in Sacred2, leveling up being one of many variables, we might not see a viable formula on safety leveling boundaries.

On a side note, I came up with a formula based upon virtual hp vs damage intake mitigation that proved reliable as a safety boundary measurement in most situations.

Last edited by Valdore : 26.07.2012 at 22:13. Reason: corrected link
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Old 02.08.2012, 14:05   (permalink) #15
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With lots of char defensive vs opponont offensive variables that continuously alter survivabiliy in Sacred2, leveling up being one of many variables, we might not see a viable formula on safety leveling boundaries
I'm not talking about enemy CAs(I know that skeleton champs use their Frenzied Rampage - I've received between 2 and 5 hits in quick succession), about crits (which they can do even if they are my level), about enemies with generally high damage figures (like boars early on), or anything like that. Just the extra damage out of nowhere if they are significantly ahead. I'd like to know how much counts as a "significant" level gap. Right now, I think that the extra damage doesn't appear suddenly; it seems to build up gradually, so if the levels are 10:9 (or 40:36, or 100:90), it won't be very noticeable. But if it's close to a 3:2 ratio, the extra damage is a lot.
So the true question #7 could be, "How is the extra damage calculated?" rather than "When does it start?"

Quote:
I came up with a formula based upon virtual hp vs damage intake mitigation that proved reliable as a safety boundary measurement in most situations.
Quite straightforward if you're a DII vet -- it's pretty much their "max the resist or don't care at all" rule, due to the hard (semi-hard?) 75% limit there. After you've accumulated ~33%, it features quite some incresing returns due to (Thorin stop reading here) the "small denominator" effect.
The only non-physical DamMit %'s I've found so far was on an Endijian item and on a Niobasterd's (both green). Shields, runes, armor only seem to feature physical. So...
8- Do I have to combine a lot of greenies to make a good suit of armor?
And finally:
I've had quite a bit of trouble with the Seraphim's AT field:
It seems to run out quite quickly, and the max shield strength is quite negligible compared to the regen penalty -- like +25% life for +75% regen. Not to mention the extra skill slot I need if I want to combine it with Battle Stance.
From SacredWiki: "As a buff, a player doesn't have to worry about if their shield is up and running. (Unless it's energy is all gone)."
Teh Lulz. As if that were a minor issue... And it's 'its'. If it's 'it is' or 'it has', it's 'it's'. And if it's not, it's 'its'.
9- Is the seraphic shield strictly weaker than the TG's shroud? To me, it seems so... esp. with the TG mods for more health and regen. The projectile reflection mod seems to be the only advantage on the phim's side.
Another shield-related question,
10- What is "Ward Efficiency"? It is mentioned on the wiki but not explained... Is it zero for seraphic energy shields?

"Change my pitch up..."

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